#spoilers fires of heaven

[flo-n-flon]

"Wiping the blood from her mouth, Moiraine crawled out from beneath the tail of the wagon and rose unsteadily to her feet, the sound of a man's laughter in her ears."

— The Fires of Heaven, Robert Jordan

Moiraine and whump go well together, Robert Jordan said so

[pillowfriends]

HELLO???????

Rand/Avi real??????????? also DRAGONS?????? but more importantly RAND HAD SEX??? WITH AVIENDHA?? DID I START READING A FANFIC ON ACCIDENT what theeee fuck. (positive)

[lunarcrystal]

Lute's Defeat

[i-am-a-fan]

So one head-canon turned into another and then another and then another an-

[bluenoisen]

now nearly done with The Fires of Heaven and do you guys REMEMBER this scene where Rand plays up his madness just to make Selande back off?? so so funny, this guy is nuts i love him

[ofthebrownajah]

Moiraine: Balefire is bad, Rand. You shouldn't use it.

Rand: I've seen you use Balefire before.

Moiraine:...

Rand: ....

Moiraine: that's beside the point

[moonstarsandspacedust]

Desperately want an outside POV on the Rand + “Natael” situation. They spend hours together every night for “discussions”. What do people think they’re discussing? Do people honestly think he’s teaching Rand the flute or something? How many of the Maidens think they’re fucking?

[butterflydm]

more WoT s3 spec - what we know vs what we're guessing at

I've been poking at what we know about s3 vs what we can reasonably guess, so I wanted to break that down a bit.

So there are a few things we know just about the structure of how the show has worked so far: we know they shoot in blocks of two episodes each and that each of those blocks is going to have the same director for both episodes. Because of this info, we can make some guesses at where specific episodes may land. We also have some casting info (wotseries.com being a great resource here).

They tend to have a major reveal in the fourth episode - Nynaeve being incredibly powerful in the One Power in 1x04; Selene being Lanfear in 2x04.

What we know for certain:

Rhuidean & the Waste will appear (Rand & Egwene's storyline).

Tanchico will appear (Nynaeve & Elayne's storyline).

The Two Rivers will appear (Perrin's storyline).

Rand and Perrin will each get focus episodes akin to Nynaeve having "What Might Be" and Egwene having "Eyes Without Pity" in s2.

We have four episode titles: "To Race The Shadow"; "A Glimpse of Crimson"; "Goldeneyes"; and "He Who Comes With The Dawn".

Sea Folk are confirmed for S3.

Potential leaks include:

Mat, Min, and Thom all being part of Nynaeve & Elayne's storyline in Tanchico. Big change for Mat & Min, but matches canon for Thom. And since show-onlys have only seen Thom with Mat and Rand, it would make sense to use Mat to re-introduce us to him.

Reports of the actresses reported to be playing Morgase and Elaida seen at a castle which is almost certainly in Caemlyn (Andoran banners spotted), most likely for the first or second episode due to the timing.

An actress playing Maigran (one of the Aiel from the Rhuidean glass columns sequence) is listed under the director who is being used for eps 3 and 4.

An actress has been cast to play an older version of Latra and I really like @wheeloftimeofficial's idea that we'll see her as the ancient Aes Sedai who establishes Rhuidean in the glass column memories, especially since the younger actress also has s3 listed on her CV.

We have (unofficially) confirmed castings for Faile & Galad.

Hints we've gotten from interviews & bts info:

In an interview filmed before the actors' strike, Daniel mentions Lan having some really good relationship scenes with Nynaeve, so we know that there's interaction between those characters before their plotlines separate, implying that we will not begin with everyone already all off on their separate journeys, like they were in 2x01.

Also from Daniel, it's implied that there are training scenes between Lan and Rand (could happen at any point, since Lan is likely to be in Rand's storyline the entire season).

From what Josha has said, the show will be pivoting to a more familial relationship between Egwene and Rand next season (which matches the book timing).

Rafe made a point of mentioning that Elayne healing Rand was to flag to the audience that this was a relationship to pay attention to (which implies we'll get at least some movement on that relationship in s3).

Josha also says that there is "way more togetherness" for Two Rivers' characters in s3 than in s2.

In an unrelated interview on screenrant, Rima Te Waita (Sheriam) mentioned that she will not be in s3 but, if s4 is greenlit, she will be in s4.

Josha and Ayoola posted some cute instas of each other after finishing up the South Africa shooting stint near Cape Town, which might be a hint towards our potential AviRand interactions (could also just be the actors being cute!).

Guesses based on book & show knowledge:

It seems likely to me that Gawyn & Galad will be introduced in the same episode as Morgase and Elaida, which I am tentatively going to guess will be episode 2.

I think that Verin, Alanna & their Warders are going to be getting out of Cairhien as quickly as possible. And that they are pretty conveniently set up to head to their TSR storyline.

I am pretty torn about when the coup will happen! I feel like it happening this season feels pretty much a lock because there really isn't any more "White Tower storyline" until the coup happens, and they do already have the set made. But it could either happen pretty early on or fairly late in the season. Maybe episode five? That lets us meet Elaida in episode 2, gives her and possibly Gawyn & Galad time to get to the White Tower, maybe we get some scenes of her politicking in the WT in episode 4, with the trigger being pulled in episode 5 or 6. But another possibility is that the coup happens right away, while all those Sisters are still in Cairhien and we see Liandrin take the lead on something like stilling Siuan and Leane, which would put the White Tower in chaos before Elaida even arrives. There are at least two Black Ajah Sisters in Cairhien, after all, and Liandrin likes to act extra-judicially, and she might want to try to make sure that Siuan is taken care of before anyone has a chance to out her (Liandrin) as Black Ajah. But there is also a chance that it might happen in the finale, so that we can parallel Moiraine & Siuan's 'downfalls'. So really this one is a wildcard for me. It isn't really directly tied to any other specific events in TSR, so it can happen whenever.

We will get the glass columns in episode 3 or 4. In the books, it happened as soon as Rand landed in the Waste, basically, but the show could potentially do Cold Rocks Hold first, depending on how Rand is getting to the Waste. I used to lean towards it happening in ep3, but after learning the leak about Mat being in Tanchico, it made me wonder about ep4, maybe, as that could potentially lead to Mat going through the doorways (just speculation with zero leaks or spoilers to back it up but I like it a lot lol) from Tanchico to Rhuidean either at the end of ep4 or the start of ep5, leaving Nynaeve & Elayne's storyline and going to Rand & Egwene's.

I do keep thinking about Josha saying that the Two Rivers' kids would have "way more togetherness" than in s3, which seems difficult if they all separate by or after ep2 and then don't reunite the entire season. I guess technically it would be true because they don't reunite in s2 until the final moments of 2x08 but feels somewhat underwhelming to mention, lol.

I do still suspect that we're getting Lanfear & Moiraine with the doorway at the end of the season.

So, a tentative outline. Now we leave behind the more solid leaks and knowledge and enter into the wild speculations. Please check out @markantonys' recent post too, she's got some fun speculations!

3x01: To Race the Shadow

"Way more togetherness" between the Two Rivers group than in s2, so says Josha. This is also where we have to be getting the Lan & Nynaeve romantic scenes that Daniel keeps hyping up, lol.

Moiraine and Rand are going to be arguing about his next plans.

Something will happen that makes them realize that Something Is Up in Tanchico -- this might be a first Dream from Egwene that leads them in the direction of the museum? Which also leads to her talking to Amys, which is why she decides to go with Rand instead of going with Nynaeve & Elayne. The big question for me is if they are going to Tanchico because of Liandrin or if they go for other reasons and then run into Liandrin also being there to get the same thing that they're getting.

Now Mat may go into a doorway here as speculated by @markantonys (the room of curiosities) but for this specific outline, I'm going to say that he doesn't, and instead he chooses to go with Elayne & Nynaeve because he's running away from Rand (after the Stabbening). This pulls in something that Mat tries to do a lot in the books but gives him a new motivation that fits his show character.

I think Lanfear is going to warn Rand about the rest of the Forsaken being free but potentially also send Liandrin to Tanchico to try to get the, uh, plot token for her potential use in the future (a girl needs a back-up plan).

Lanfear talking to Rand might be another thing that Rand and Moiraine argue about.

Rand and Egwene are going to have their official 'break-up' and then we'll see their more platonic relationship develop over the course of the season. I also feel like we have to have at least a scene or two with Rand and Elayne to establish them feeling Some Kind of Way about each other, to build on that moment from 2x08.

3x02: A Glimpse of Crimson

Good episode title for a Red Ajah & Andor episode!

I'm going to guess that Rand & co are going to be stopping in Caemlyn (my feelings are similar to @markantonys about us potentially getting a garden introduction between Egwene & Gawyn here, and then having Rand & Egwene meet Elaida & Morgase (and Galad?). Elaida will have her Foretelling about Rand and freak herself out.

Our group hears the rumors about the Two Rivers, and Perrin decides to go investigate. The question is how is Rand going to get to the Waste from Caemlyn? I don't feel like they would introduce Portal Stones as a one-off if they haven't done it before, so I think there's a chance that Loial might go with Rand instead of Perrin, as Perrin doesn't need to go through the Ways to get to the Two Rivers (of course, then they would need to change how the battle resolves in 3x07).

(alternatively: there's always the Lanfear express, I guess, lol)

This could also be when Elayne, Nynaeve, & Mat arrive in Tanchico, and their introduction to the city is our B plot. I don't think they would throw all the plots at them at once and I feel like just introducing Thom first would be a good start for the first episodes in Tanchico.

3x03: Unknown

Rand & co arrive in the Waste, but I'm going to send them to Cold Rocks Hold for now, instead of straight to Rhuidean. This gives Rand and Aviendha time to bond, Rand and Moiraine time to fight, Rand and Lan time to train together, and gives the audience a chance to get to know the Aiel culture in a bit more of a relaxed setting. Then we get an attack by Shadowspawn and Rand gets the reminder that the other Forsaken have been let free and don't share Ishamael and Lanfear's feelings about him.

Another plot will be in Tanchico, involving Nynaeve, Elayne, and Mat investigating, running into Min and/or Egeanin or Tuon taking Egeanin's role. This may be where we get our early encounters with Moghedien (she Compels one or more of our characters to spill the beans to her about their plans) and potentially where she reveals herself to Liandrin & co as one of the Chosen and takes control of their group after playing servant for part of the episode.

We also have Perrin & co arriving in the Two Rivers and getting the lay of the land. This could be a fairly emotional episode for Perrin, due to memories of Laila's death. Maybe when Perrin says goodbye to Laila (putting his ring on her grave/memorial?) and potentially our first sighting of Faile.

3x04: Unknown

Rand goes to Rhuidean and into the glass columns. This is the main plot of the episode and Rand's focus episode of the season.

We get the history of the Aiel here, and learn about Rand's ancestors.

Subplot: Aviendha is told that she is destined to be a Wise One (maybe she accidentally channeled during the fight at Cold Rocks Hold?) and deals with idea that she has to leave behind being a Maiden.

Our Tanchico B-plot leads to Mat entering through the twisted doorway in the museum, For Reasons, and getting his prophecies. Maybe this same plotline leads to Elayne and Nynaeve finding dream ter'angreal, and to Tuon/Egeanin realizing that Elayne and Nynaeve are channelers, and potentially learns that all sul'dam are, and then leaves our main plotline at this time.

3x05: Unknown

When Rand leaves the glass columns, he finds Mat hanging on the tree outside, and saves his life (we've gotten a few different pieces of foreshadowing about Mat being hanged, so I feel like it will happen at some point). Mat says he was just in Tanchico.

We catch up with Perrin in the Two Rivers, with him learning to move past his grief as he gets to know Faile.

Because we've already done Cold Rocks Hold, this means that Rand & co can go straight to Alcair Dal at this point.

Aviendha and Rand bond over their lives being dictated by being able to use the One Power and not having any choices about their future.

On the way to Alcair Dal, we meet the traders, who are hiding Lanfear and Asmodean in their ranks, and Lanfear sees that Rand is getting closer to Aviendha and Does Not Approve.

Nynaeve and Elayne worry about where Mat has disappeared to and experiment with the dream ter'angreal that they recently discovered in the museum (might only be one: the twisted stone ring, so that channeling isn't needed for it), and run into Birgitte in the dream. She gives them a warning but they realize that this is the same place that Egwene was talking about in 3x01 and are excited that they might be able to communicate with her.

3x06: Unknown

Another journey into TAR for Nynaeve (maybe a successful contact with Egwene?), and she encounters Birgitte again, but Moghedien too, and this leads to Birgitte getting ripped out of TAR and bonded by Elayne to save her life.

Moiraine tells Rand that he needs to go to Tear, to fulfill more of the prophecies, but Rand is resistant.

The Two Rivers ramps up for the battle.

This would also be a good spot for the coup, imo.

3x07: Goldeneyes

The Battle of the Two Rivers. Potentially Perrin's focus episode as well, as he comes into his own as a leader. I think that it would be good to push any confirmed Perrin/Faile romance forward into the future, so they will still just have some vibes for now.

We get some pieces moving into place for the other storylines: Rand arrives at Alcair Dal; Nynaeve and Elayne make plans to return to the museum.

3x08: He Who Comes With The Dawn

Desperate to get through to Rand and worrying that he is focusing on the Aiel instead of being the Dragon Reborn, Moiraine went back to Rhuidean to try to use the doorway, as when Mat talked about his experiences there, she recognized what he was talking about and wants answers of her own.

Rand announces himself at Alcair Dal, drawing the attention of Lanfear, who makes her pitch to him that We Could Rule Together, worrying that she's losing her hold over him after seeing him getting closer to Aviendha. She tells him about Asmodean and about him potentially teaching Rand so that he can reach his potential.

Inside the doorway, Moiraine gets answers that she doesn't like about Rand and Lanfear (sort of merging her going into the doorway in Tear with her going into the silver rings).

On the Tanchico side of things, we have our big Tanchico encounter between Nynaeve and Moghedien, which results in Nynaeve breaking her block. Nynaeve and Elayne escape Tanchico on a Sea Folk ship, heading towards Tear, potentially bringing Min & Thom along with them.

After talking with Lanfear, Rand is let out of his 'bubble' at Alcair Dal as Couladin declares that HE is the Car'a'carn and he will prove it by leading the Aiel to conquer the wetlands (setting up s4 to be a combo of TFoH/LoC, with a hint of TDR with the destination being Tear instead of Cairhien). Rand realizes that the fake dragons on Couladin's arms were put there by Asmodean and goes after him -- Asmodean Skims back to Rhuidean and he and Rand battle, and Lanfear arrives, puts the block on Asmodean and offers him up as a teacher to Rand. Moiraine takes advantage of Lanfear's focus on Rand to yeet both of them into the doorway while channeling, based on the knowledge that she learned inside, melting the doorway. We see in the Tanchico storyline that the other doorway melts at the same time, leaving them no exit.

And I agree with @markantonys that possibly the most effective stinger would be the reveal that Tuon is the DotNM, but if there is no Tuon in this season, we could have it be a Forsaken (Sammael) setting up shop in Tear, to set the scene for the upcoming season.

It is a lot more cliffhanger-y than our previous season finales and I'm sure that my thoughts on it will change as we get closer and learn more spoilers, but that is my wild speculation for this specific week!

[vallasochrasy]

moiraine being the most dramatic bitch tbh whos doing it like her like she set up her entire scene one day ahead got her stage props out on the docks wrote her heartwrenching letters put on her slayest outfit and then went out serving absolute cunt flinging herself against lanfear in front of rand to forever change the trajectory of their lives

[jpiercecreative]

“If you are not mine…then you are DEAD!!!”

💃🏻☠️

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Lanfear fan art /// scene from #wheeloftimebook5 : #thefiresofheaven — (((created with Midjourney + Photoshop + Illustrator))) // imagined by #wheeloftimeanimated

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[halcyon-autumn]

So pretty early on in The Fires of Heaven, our boy Mat hands a necklace to one of the Maidens to impress her, not realizing that giving a gift like that as a close as a dude can come in Aiel culture to proposing. Which means. This guy. Has not one but TWO accidental proposals under his belt. Incredible writing decision, no notes, RJ really said “I will explore cultural differences by making Matrim Cauthon get accidentally engaged as many times as possible” and that was the best possible choice

[the-oaken-muse]

I watched Good Omens for the first time last week, so I'm a bit late to the party, but I wanted to talk a little bit about the Metatron's offer to Aziraphale.

On my initial watch, I definitely got "Azula tricking Zuko to come back to the Fire Nation" vibes and after a few rewatches as well as a refresher on that episode of ATLA, the parallels are even stronger.

First we have the Metatron and Azula:

They both show up suddenly with grand promises, telling Aziraphale and Zuko exactly what they want to hear. You can come Home. You can come back to Heaven, and so can Crowley. We need you. We want you.

They both emphasize that they are delivering good news, really hyping it up. They are so kind and understanding. Take all the time you need.

But at the same time that they are warm to their target, they show open disdain to their closest ally when their backs are turned.

Next, we have Aziraphale and Zuko:

At this point, Zuko still believes in the vision of the Fire Nation, he believes that they are honorable and right in what they do, and Aziraphale believes that Heaven is the epitome of goodness, truth, and light. The word "indoctrination" comes to mind. They've both been burned by the people they look up to, but are blinded by their ideals.

They're extremely loyal to their side, and there's more than a little denial at play. When Crowley and Iroh express distrust and a desire not to go, they get defensive, they lash out. You don't know, you don't understand.

Finally, we have Crowley and Iroh:

They truly care for Aziraphale and Zuko. They're always there for them and would do just about anything to protect them.

They are a bit more worldly than their companions and are suspicious of the Metatron and Azula's intentions. In our family, things aren't always what they seem. Heaven and Hell are both toxic.

They both receive the same invitation to join the others, to go Home, to go to Heaven, even though the main focus is on Aziraphale and Zuko. The parallels diverge with these two, however: while Azula doesn't really care whether or not her uncle joins them, as long as she gets Zuko, Crowley was never meant to accept the offer. The Metatron draws Aziraphale away from Crowley to talk, they are separated as soon as possible, and a wedge driven between them.

At first, Iroh wasn't going to go, but changed his mind at the last minute. Crowley does not change his mind.

With how similar these two scenes are, I can't help but speculate on what this means for Good Omens. Is this just an elaborate way of kidnapping Aziraphale? Are the angels taking pointers from their last attempt and taking a more subtle, calculated approach this time?

Do they actually want Aziraphale on their side or are they just trying to get him out of the way?

[pillowfriends]

every chapter recently has just been insane. sex igloo. dragons exist. Elayne can make ter’angreal. Liandrin is shielded. Elayne bonded Birgitte. Nynaeve is passively suicidal. did I mention the dragons in Seanchan. Robert let me rest

[tildeathiwillwrite]

(WoT Book 5 Spoilers) It's a closer fight than you might think.

[ineffectualbookseller]

there is something to be said for how much the Metatrons' offer of restoring Crowley to an angel changed things for Aziraphale, even beyond the face value of the offer

Azirphale eventually (and reluctantly) accepts the promotion under the presumption that he will be able to change heaven - "if I'm in charge, I can make a difference."

and obviously, Muriel and Jim/Gabriel are two key narrative players to show us why Aziraphale would think heaven can still be reformed - Muriel who was unbelievably lonely in heaven and, despite all their ineptitude, is so excited to experience earth for the first time (the fondness in Aziraphale's face during their scene together in the bookshop is so touching) - and Jim/Gabriel who Aziraphle once knew to be cold, unsympathetic, and remorseless but after having the memories and influences of heaven stripped away turns out to be helpful, curious, and self-sacrificing (we see Aziraphale come to terms with this change over the season, telling Jim in e2 that he's really not sure if he's still terrible but when Crowley is questioning Jim in e5, Aziraphale's sure he's just being silly)

but even after witnessing this, Azirphale isn't jumping at the offer to run heaven. He says so point blank, "I don't want to go back to heaven," but everything changes when he gets the offer to restore Crowley as an angel

and clearly, Aziraphale is so excited by the face-value offer, he and Crowley would be safe and they'd be together, and Crowley would never be punished for doing good again. Just look at his happy little hands when he's asking Crowley to pause his confession so he can share his own great news. He's beyond thrilled to be able to offer this to Crowley, to live this life with Crowley (before he realizes it's not a life that Crowley wants - those happy hands are devastating in hindsight)

so if bringing Crowley to heaven with him was the selling point, why is he still going after Crowley says no? Because in Aziraphale's eyes, the power to restore Crowley is the power to correct heaven's mistakes. So heaven can make mistakes - Aziraphale thinks the Metatron just admitted that heaven is fallible

that is HUGE

(this is also not what the Metatron was saying - but in this context what Metatron said doesn't matter, only what Aziraphale heard)

and this isn't just coming from some angel - the Metatron is the voice of God. The closest thing to speaking to God we have witnessed since 2500 BCE in the Job minisode (the most recent evidence of God speaking directly to a character). Regardless of where God actually is during this story, Azirphale would be taking the Metatron's word as the word of God

Aziraphale has been acting against what heaven says God wants since the beginning: giving away his sword in Eden to protect Adam and Eve from their punishment (which he then lies to God about but is still allowed to stay on Earth), lying to save Job's children and openly question God's role in the plan ("I… I don’t think… that is what God wants"), and of course stopping Armageddon with his Great Plan vs Ineffible Plan pedantry (and before this, his plan for most of s1 is to get in contact with someone higher than Gabriel because of course, God wouldn't actually want this) - and when he is finally found out, Gabriel and Michael cut his ties with heaven

but now might-as-well-be-God is walking into his bookshop and scolding the middle managers and saying they've been fucking up. And he tells Aziraphale that they were wrong about him and they were wrong about Crowley and Aziraphale's the one that's been in the right

(keep in mind that Aziraphale does not know that the Metatron has been on the same subcommittees as the archangels - after Michael and Uriel don't recognize him, he's probably assuming they have very little contact)

if Corwley falling was a mistake maybe everything else Aziraphale has been internally questioning is too. If heaven can make mistakes than something has been going wrong in heaven - a fault in operations not in design - there must something to fix

Aziraphale is a being of faith and he carries such guilt for questioning that faith. The idea that the Metraton is acknowledging a mistake must be such a balm to him

It's really no wonder he thinks he can change heaven after that offer

[ofthebrownajah]

Robert Jordan in every prologue: this prologue will be in the POV of everyone you hate